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“I’m Gunnery Sergeant Hartman your senior drill instructor...”
Like many people, that was my introduction to R. Lee Ermey the former drill instructor turned actor, advocate and host of the History Channel’s “Mail Call.” There’s a short list of the great Hollywood badasses today and Ermey continues to make a run at the top (if Eastwood does another “Bridges of Madison County” the title is his…) with roles like Hartman, the creepy Sheriff Hoyt (from the “Texas Chainsaw Massacre” remake) supporting roles in films like “Seven” and “Dead Man Walking,” as well as a bevy of television roles (including Hugh Laurie’s father in “House” and Sergeant Hobo 678 in the classic but overlooked “Invader Zim”).
I’d always envisioned the Gunny as a tough-as-nails, take no prisoners sort, however when I got a hold of him he had just completed collecting toys for needy children. Ermey seemed like a bit of strange alchemy: part bulldog and part Santa Claus. So grab your choice of cool (or warm) beverage and sit back and check out my conversation with Lee Ermey.
*****
Joe Mammy: Looking over your career, if you looked back to 1961 where it all started for you as far as the military and everything, could you have ever imagined it would have come out the way it has?
R Lee Ermey: Oh hell, my objective was to be successful no matter where I had to go or what I had to do. I may have chosen different paths but I honestly and firmly believe that there’s no way I was going to be on welfare.
Joe: I was doing some reading—and maybe you can put this to rest, there seems to be a lot of urban myths surrounding you—how exactly did you get into the military?
RLE: Well, I had a bit of a problem and the judge recommended that I should look at the military very closely or he might have to send me where the sun doesn’t shine. Well, there really wasn’t much contest. I ended up in the Marine Corps simply because the Air Force and the Navy wouldn’t have me because I had a juvenile record, but it was probably the best thing. I guess the good Lord channeled me in this direction.
Joe: From there it sounds like you got into acting, was it Thailand you went to?
RLE: No, no. As a matter of fact I did the comedy clubs here in California for a while. I got retired out of the Marine Corps, all I owned was what I had in my sea bag and I didn’t have a car, I had a little money in pocket because I’d been hurt, I’d been in the hospital for awhile. I’d been an instructor for the last four years, five years in the Marine Corps and in order to be a good instructor you damn near have to be a stand up comic so I put together a script and I went up and did the comedy clubs for awhile. Then I heard they were going to do Vietnam War shows over in the Philippines and I ended up going over there. The only reason I went to college was to take advantage of the GI Bill of Rights, but I never ever finished a semester. I got so busy doing films, advertisements, and commercials that I just got so busy I dropped out of college, but I’ve been busy ever since.
Joe: Would you consider comedy your first love or just where you got your start?
RLE: If you watch any shows that I do there’s a certain amount of humor involved. I prefer doing comedy. I would rather do feature films that are geared toward comedy. I feel more comfortable with it. I have a certain amount of wit and pretty good timing. Even “Full Metal Jacket,” you watch “Full Metal Jacket” you get some laughs out of that and I wrote most of it. I just feel more comfortable with comedy but I do anything. I can do just about anything you can think of.
I just finished a film called “Texas Chainsaw Massacre: the Beginning” and I starred in the show so that’ll give you a kind of idea, but if you watch that you get some laughs from the character as well even though he is deep, deep dark black, so black that his humor's not just black humor, it’s nearly purple it’s so black—
Joe: That’s the Sheriff Hoyt character from the first one?
RLE: Yes, and I was able to write it all this time. Nobody in Hollywood can write for my 
character because no one is perverted enough, I guess, to understand my character. I know the character inside and out. I created the character in the remake—there was nothing written for the character in the remake. Basically I came up with everything I did in the remake. I had to develop and evolve the character. That warm, cuddly, lovable Sheriff Hoyt—he was what the critics raved about after the remake was done, so when New Line decided that they wanted to do a prequel they called me up and asked me if I would star in the prequel.
Joe: That’s good. That character had the most psychologically interesting and disturbing element in the entire film as far as I was concerned.
RLE: Well the thing is Sheriff Hoyt is a sexually perverted homicidal maniac. He’s a crazy man. I’ve always been one that I will take a character as far over the top as I can without falling off the other side and so I push my character to the limit. Well, if you’re a sexually perverted homicidal maniac there is no limit, is there? So he’s a crazy bastard anyway. Basically it gives me a license to do anything as crazy and as sick as I wanna do. I’m certainly not politically correct and I think that’s basically what the critics enjoyed about Sheriff Hoyt was the fact he really didn’t have any rules that he lived by. He doesn’t have any guidelines. Like I say, I like to push the character right to the limit and with Hoyt there was no limit so I could get by with murder and I loved it. I love the character. I would say—I’m convinced in my own mind that he’s one of the most colorful fun characters that I’ve ever played in my life and I’ve done what 72, 74 films, something like that.
Joe: I always get a kick out of the people who really work in Hollywood versus the really big names—you guys are out there just grinding away. That’s one thing I’ve always appreciated about what you’ve done. You manage to land these really interesting characters and make them even more interesting. Even in the smaller parts like in the old “Brisco County Jr.” show and more recently when you showed up in “House”—
RLE: Oh yes.
Joe: Are those the kind of roles that you enjoy because it allows you that kind of flexibility?
RLE: I’m going to have fun with House’s father in “House,” yes, and the show’s a great show. I need for the producers and directors of “House” to back away a little bit and let me do my thing, you know? That’s always a problem, you know? Some producers and some directors in Hollywood really are very hesitant to let you do much that’s not written because it seems to me they have a lack of confidence on their part; you know what I’m saying?
The really good roles I’ve done have been characters I’ve put together, that I’ve manufactured with directors that would just let me have my head and let me go for it. Most damn directors and producers have this political correct thing, you know? “Oh no, we can’t do that, that would—“ or “Oh my God, nobody’s ever done that—" All that is as far as I’m concerned is a display of lack of confidence on their part.
Joe: You’re definitely not a shy guy—
RLE: Oh no, hell, I’ll climb that wall. I think that’s why I’m where I’m at today because I pushed my way through to the point where I try to be off-the-wall colorful and unpredictable and that’s just my style. It’s always been my style and that’s the way I like to do things.
One of the worst things a director can tell me is “less is more.” You’ve heard that, right? That’s sick. That is sad.
Joe: You’ve worked in some amazing films, “Full Metal Jacket” of course is the first to come to mind, but other films like “Seven” or “Dead Man Walking” you’ve had some really intense parts but aren’t as overstated as some of the ones you may be known for. How do you choose your roles; do you look forward to those roles?
RLE: I look forward to all of them. My main objective is to get the directors and producers to let me give them the best character I can give them, you know? In a few cases that isn’t allowed because of the lack of confidence they have. I’ve actually had producers and directors call other producers at two o’clock in the morning and ask if Lee Ermey can change two words in this damn dialogue. The two words we would replace them with of course have the exact same meaning the only difference is they’re words I would use or my character would use rather than some fifty cent word that some damn writer wrote down.
I look at it from this angle as well, that writer locks himself away in his little room 
there and he writes for ten or twelve or fifteen different characters, I’m only worried about one character. I can concentrate on one character and I’m a pretty good writer. Most of the roles I’ve done throughout the years have been my own writing. I didn’t get here by being a dunce or a loser; I work hard at what I do. If I didn’t think it was ten times better than what the writer had to write I wouldn’t even suggest it, you know what I’m saying?
Joe: Is that characteristic of your experience in Hollywood that it has its own little culture that doesn’t necessarily seem to interact with actual culture at times?
RLE: For instance, you’ve got a writer writing for a character that’s a military character, right? This writer’s never been in the military. The only thing he knows about the military is through a few military shows he’s seen. So a military guy is chosen to do the role, I mean, c’mon, who better can write for that military character? The writer doesn’t even know the jargon for chrissakes. I mean, the writer’s calling this Marine a soldier for chrissakes, you know? It’s totally disgusting in a lot of instances, but then when you approach the director to correct the matter, the director is just totally dumbfounded because he’s never been in the military either, right? He wouldn’t know his left from his right and he couldn’t be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, but yet because of their incompetence and their lack of confidence they don’t want to allow that actor, who has been in the military, to change one word of that dialogue, you see what I’m saying? Because if it happened to be something the producer might not like, well they might lose their job or they might be chastised, see what I’m saying? It’s kinda delicate; it’s a bit touchy in a lot of cases.
I think that if somebody hires me to do a goddamned character in their movie that they should at least have the goddamn confidence in me and my ability to pull this character off to let me have a little bit of headway and a little range so that I can improve the character. It really, really aggravates me to think that somebody would hire me and then think that I’m going to be their damn puppet that they can shove their hand up my butt and make my arms work and my mouth move the way they want it to. You see what I’m saying?
Joe: Yeah, nice mental image if nothing else. How did “Mail Call” come about, as far as your involvement with it? Was it something you came up with and pitched or was it something you were approached to do?
RLE: I was approached with it, and then I helped pitch it a little bit. Digital Ranch is 
the producers and they direct the show. The owner of Digital Ranch—it’s a small production company, small but busy and very, very good—directs each and every episode. I am given total creative freedom. Actually what the History Channel had in mind when we got geared up to do the show was they expected an Ollie North to come on board and flat out “here’s the news, the whole news, nothing but the news,”—no humor, no nothing, just pitching documentary film footage and I came on and put humor in it and actually the History Channel was a bit upset there for a while. They didn’t think that would work: “Oh my God, this is not the comedy channel, this is the History Channel.” And we’re one of the highest-rated shows on the History Channel. After an episode or two the folks at the History Channel realized that they had a winner and they backed off and we get along just fine.
Joe: It’s been fun for me, I’ve never been in the military but I come from a military town, I’ve got friends in the military, some of the best I’ve known have come from the military and the specials you’ve done in the last couple of seasons have been really powerful, like when you returned to Vietnam, or some of the World War II specials. How much of that has been an opportunity for you to explore some of these things and come in contact with these people and situations?
RLE: Much of it; a lot of it. The way the Vietnam show was supposed to have ended was I was supposed to be paddled down the river, the Perfume River, by an old mamasan in a little sanpan. I said, “Hey, this is not where this show should end. We should end this show at the Wall in Washington DC with me shining the emblem.”
It’s a joint effort, the Mail Call show. Rob Lihani, who is the director, producer and part-owner of Digital Ranch that produces the show spent seven years in the military himself. He and I together, we put our heads together, we’re pretty much an unstoppable force when it comes to dealing with the military. I guess the proof is in the pudding. It’s our show and it’s a give and take situation. Rob Lihani, even though he is the director and producer, listens to me as much as I listen to him and we cooperate with one another and we do what’s best for the show. The trouble is with many shows it’s written and that’s the way we’re going to do it, you know what I’m saying? In other words, there’s no creativity about it, this is the way the damn writer wrote it and this is the words we’re going to say and this is what we’re going to do regardless of whether that actor comes up with an idea that might be ten times better, that director and that producer stand their ground and it’s just sad. It’s too bad and I see it all the time in Hollywood where the producers and directors won’t even listen to reason, won’t even take suggestions from the actors and it’s a sad situation.
But in my case with “Mail Call” it’s a joint effort. We even take recommendations from the cameraman for chrissakes. It’s a little small group we have. There’s only about six or seven of us that go off and do these shows in Imo Jima and Vietnam and so on and so forth, and everyone’s input is welcome, you know what I’m saying. Everyone has a vested interest. People are pretty loyal. We find this great cameraman and we want to keep him with us. So we had the same crew over and over for the show and we trust these people and they have a vested interest in this show's success as much as anyone else in the show. When they have a suggestion we listen to the suggestion, we weigh the suggestion, we figure out whether their suggestion has merit and if it would be better to do it the way they suggest or if it would be better to be left alone. Most of the guys don’t have a military background, but sometimes, you’d be surprised, some of the guys come up with some pretty doggone solid, logical ideas.
Joe: It’s true. It’s different than the standard show. A friend of mine recently got into the show and thinks it’s a great show because they answer questions you want to know the way you like to hear it. Part of that appeal is in the reader mail when you have current and former military personnel writing in. How is the feedback from both the folks in the military and former military people?
RLE: The feedback is tremendous. You know, number one, the History Channel does support us very well. They’re behind us 100%. They’re a bunch of great guys and gals up there at the History Channel and they give us all the support in the world. It’s a wonderful channel. I love history, and how many people in America really do like history? We like to look back and see what’s going on and even on to the future.
When we first started the show, of course the Marine Corps knows me and has known me, I’ve been with Marine Corps for 45 years and I’ve always been with the Marine Corps and supported the Marine Corps so they’ve always been there for us. I want to do a show about a 155 Howitzer—bang, the door’s wide open, we go in and do the show. But, say for instance when we wanted to do a show about mid-air refueling with the KC-135’s, the Air Force drug their feet and drug their feet and they weren’t sure and they didn’t trust us. It took us about two months just to get the clearances and everything so that we could do the show on George Air Force Base. Then we finally got the “Okay you c’mon and do it,” and they didn’t trust us and they watched us close. After about eight or ten, fifteen episodes had aired with the Navy, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, the Marine Corps, the Army—all branches of the military, we suddenly started getting phone calls. “Hey, how about you guys comin’ up here and doing this?” or “How would the Gunny like to ride in an F-15? We’re up here in Oregon, we’d like the Gunny to come up here and do this with the Oregon Air National Guard.” But we won over the trust of the military.
We’ve even been invited up to Guantanamo Bay and do a show on what’s going on over there as far as the bad guys being confined over at Gitmo and the reason being is that the military has watched our show and realize that we call a spade a spade. We shoot from the hip. We don’t embellish. We don’t stretch people’s imaginations. We tell the damn story the way it is. The military—they’re quite honorable people. You know as well as I do, you live up at Minot so you deal with Air Force personnel on a daily basis up there for chrissakes and you realize that they’re honorable people. All the military ever has asked and all they requested and all they ever wanted was that if you go and tell our story go and tell the truth, tell it the way it is. Don’t exaggerate, don’t capitalize on a small mistake we may have made years ago, tell our story, tell the truth about us. A lot of shows go in and by the time they got this footage edited that they’ve shot they make the Air Force look like a bunch of fools, you know?
That’s something that over the years the media has done to the military so many times that the military has mistrusted the media and I don’t blame them at all. But they know, because they watch the show and they know that they can trust us and they know we call the shots the way we see them and we’ve gained the trust of the military to the point where we’re invited—we don’t even have to call them, they call us: “Hey, we’ve got USS Salt Lake City nuclear submarine here in port, would ‘Mail Call’ like to come down and do a show on that?”
They want their story told. Each branch of the military and each section of each branch of the military, be it 155 Howitzers, be it an A1 Abrams main battle tank, or be it 81mm mortar, each of these units that have these different components and these different weapons take huge pride in their product, in their weaponry, in their ability to wage war if that’s the case. All they want and all they ever request is that they be kept honorable and the story be told the way that it is, not the way some civilian liberal or some scum-sucking dirtbag wants to embellish it, you know what I’m saying.
Joe: It definitely comes through on the show. It seems like it’s the voice of today’s soldier. It doesn’t seem to have the political agenda as much as showing the guys who are out there doing it and this is a show that reflects what they do.
RLE: And the main thing that I’d like to stress is that we do not do this show for political gain. We do this show to pass on the knowledge to interested Americans, you know? Mom and dad—how many people, how many families in America today don’t have a niece, nephew, uncle, cousin, sister, brother in the military? And these families are hungry for information about what little Johnny is doing in the military. What is boot camp like these days? We’ve heard little Johnny is involved with this particular weapon or piece of equipment, gee I wonder how it really works and how it operates? We went to Iraq and did a one hour special live via satellite and people tuned in not only to gain the knowledge that we were going to give them about what was actually going on in Iraq but maybe they would catch a glimpse of little Johnny and his unit over there.
How much of that is a motivator is that for mom and dad and the family back home sitting there watching “Mail Call” on TV and their brother is doing his thing and he’s on TV and they’re proud of him and he’s wearing his uniform properly and he’s over there fighting for his country and he’s patriotic. How proud is that mother and father, how proud is that family of little Johnny when they see him on the History Channel on “Mail Call”? You see what I’m talking about? It means a lot to the guys and gals who are fighting the war and it means a tremendous amount to the mom, dad and the family back home as well.
We like to think we’re an informative show and an interesting show and some of the neatest stuff we do—I like going into some of the modern technology and getting into some of that stuff. It’s more interesting sometimes for me than it is anybody else. It’s fun for me. I’m having a great time doing the show. I love the History Channel; I love the folks up there that I’m working for and with. I love the military. I have huge tremendous respect for our men and women in uniform. They’re the patriots of this country. They’re the ones who step up to the plate and are willing to put their lives on the line so that the rest of us have the right to vote, the right to our own opinions, the right to publish things in the newspaper or our thoughts and opinions. You know, I don’t know how else I can say it; I respect those men and women that actually have the guts to step up to the plate so that some of the other people in America who don’t have the guts can sleep well at night.
And another thing that upsets me very much is I keep hearing these damn politicians talking about the poor go into the military. You know what, it’s a way to pull yourself out of the ghetto and become a respectable American, a respectable human being and a successful human being on top of that. And racially, boy I’ll tell ya, the military is so racially balanced there is no other employment in America that’s more racially balanced where people get along with one another. When your life is on the line it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference whether that guy on that machine gun laying down that base of fire is black, green, purple, or red or whatever color that he is—he’s got your back and that’s the important thing. I think a lot of civilian companies could actually learn from the military, I really do, as far as the racial aspects go in this country.
Joe: You’ve spent a lot of your time—I have the poseable figure that the proceeds were donated to charity, you work with Toys for Tots. What does it mean for you to give back to both the military and to the community?
RLE: There’s not too many Sergeant Majors and Generals in the military, especially in the Marine Corps—and I am a bit partial of course, I respect them all, but the Marine Corps is my family, I figure I am where I am today is simply because of the leadership and the guidance and the role models I had when I was on active duty in the Marine Corps. I still say “I’m Gunnery Sergeant R. Lee Ermey, United States Marine Corps, V.A.—very active” because I remain just as active today as I ever was back in the old days when I was actually boots on the ground. The Marine Corps gave me a life, plain and simple. They taught me to be a respectable human being and I’ll always honor that, plain and simple. I do eight to ten Marine Corps Birthday Balls every year as guest of honor or guest speaker. Any Sergeant Major in the Marine Corps knows he can call my personal number and ask me to attend or come motivate the troops or attend a function they’re having with the troops and if that day on my calendar doesn’t already have an appointment on it, I’ll make every effort that I can to get down there and do that with them. That’s the way it is. The Commandant of the Marine Corps has my personal number and if he needs me to do anything he calls me up and he asks me to do it and I get it done.
And another thing I want to mention too: I’m an Independent. I’m not a Republican, I’m not a Democrat. I’m a middle-of-the-road guy and I call on logic and common sense, okay? I didn’t vote for John Kerry, however, if John Kerry was our president right now I’d be just as firmly behind him and support him just as firmly as I do George W. Bush and his administration and I wish more people would be like that. I can’t understand—I’m drifting further right all the time simply because that’s all I hear the far left doing is taking shots at our troops and telling our troops via the media that we’re losing the war, that we should pick up and run. That’s the biggest morale killer in the world. That’s what they did to us in Vietnam and now damned if they’re not doing it to us here. They say it doesn’t hurt morale? Baloney it doesn’t hurt morale—you bet it does. I keep hearing the left talk about the similarities between Vietnam and Iraq. The only damn similarity is the far left’s attempts to pull the plug and destroying the morale of the troops; that’s the only thing anywhere similar between the two wars.
Joe: Right now you’re doing work with the Toys for Tots program, could you tell me more about that in closing?
RLE: Well I’ve been doing it for 25 years. I religiously come down and spend the last two weeks before Christmas down at San Diego which I consider my home port. I spend a lot of time in San Diego, love the people down here. I work with 4th Tank Battalion; I’ve gone through a lot of ‘em. I’ve watched ‘em come and I’ve watched ‘em retire but I’m always here. Toys for Tots, the way we work it is we collect toys—been going on since 1946. I’ve been doing it for many, many years. It’s something I do every year and kinda makes me sleep a little better every night.
The toys that the Marine Corps collects for Toys for Tots in each community stay right there in that community unlike other charities. They collect toys and they collect money and gain financially in some communities and that goes out to other communities. Well Toys for Tots is not like that; it’s a community effort. I go to Chicago every year, I do Toys for Tots there and then I come down to San Diego and I’ll be here until the 19th or 20th, and then I’ll go home and I’ll go to Wal-Mart and do my shopping. I’d just like to pass the word for Toys for Tots; it’s a community effort that helps your community. The toys don’t go some place else to some other community, it stays right there in your community. It’s a community situation, a community effort.
Joe: Well, for me, and a friend of mine who was in the military say “Make sure the Gunny knows that we all appreciate his efforts on our behalf for everything he goes out there and does” so I wanted to pass on a thank you and thank you for your time and good luck to you.
RLE: Okay fine, Semper Fi. Ya’ll have a great rest of the day. Oorah! Take care now.
*****
Check out “Mail Call” on the History Channel—check local listings for times. “The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: the Beginning” is scheduled for an October ’06 release currently. For more goodies, you can check out the Joe-Mammy.com Shop as well as the Gunny’s personal website (complete with exclusive offers and autographs) at RLeeErmey.com. And of course don’t forget to make your donation to Toys for Tots!
